Hello, I'm looking for a bio of the guy. A credible one. Which Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless not the "ad usum delphini" one offered by Tismaneanu himself and copied everywhere not the "volodea" stuff from harsh critics. I am really interested to know more about his parents, and about his early career as a young politruc.
Frankly, I expect most claims from "Ziua" to Femeile femeilor true, even some of Romania Mare, but I'd like to be sure. BTW, how do you say politruc in English? Dpotop19 May UTC Political commissar or politruk both lead to the same article, but I think both are contrived in the Romanian case, and neither has anything to do with Tismăneanu.
Dahn19 May UTC Stricto sensu you are right although in Romania the word is also used in the sense of "involved in party policies", in which case I don't know.
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This is one of the reasons I need more info. Clearly, there are many classes of people that took advantage of the communist system. You have members of the high-life of the time. Ana Blandiana Caut căsătorite femei din Constanța one of them, for instance, regardless of her "dissidence".
Then, you have guys that got politically involved with the party to some point, for instance by writing propaganda. A third class are the actual high-rank party members. There are also the infamous "Propaganda secretaries", etc. He is being "prosecuted" for the politics of his father, if anything a fact which I Cauta?
i o femeie pe Fleless quite hypocritical. In the larger picture: you yourself have stressed that "being in the Party" meant virtually nothing which may be extended just as well to "people who wrote what might ammount to propaganda"; note that Tismaneanu was neither.
In this case, we Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless talking about a person who has spent his life pointing to the countless wrongs of Communist politics in Romania. The attack nowadays is scandalous in that it hides suspicions people will forever have of "Communist kids", when in fact many of his attackers might have been more communist than he ever was.
Dahn19 May UTC Actually, Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless am bothered by two things: That the "trial of the communism" is done today, when the real communists are all dead or dying except, of course, Brucan :.
It is clear to me that this "trial", whatever form it may take, is a form of political fight between existing parties, and not an actual trial of the communist system. I rather agree with that. Dahn19 May UTC That the "trial of the communism" is conducted by the son of a chief politruk stricto sensuwhich profited the system himself if only to emigrate.
If not for the symbol, I believe him to be partial when evaluating the involvment of his parents. I cannot agree with that. There has been nothing preventing xenophobes and neo-fascists to monopolize anti-communist discourse in this country, although that too would fall under the same suspicions if not, indeed, under a more accute one.
IMO, besides most of the victims of the wave of repression in the s, the Romanian pop. Since that communism turned progressively "national" rendering the nationalist critique of communism as anti-national largely bogusmany of the actual victims of the regime are actually communists not stricto sensu "victims", but there you have Brucan and Tismaneanu's father.
In fact, "the trial of communis" is a non-sequitur wherever, and especially in Romania, where it is used by a population who sincereky believed all of Dej's or Ceausescu's rhetoric. Dahn19 May UTC But you forget Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless "nationalism" is multiform, just like "capitalism", "socialism", etc.
For instance, I presume that in his uneducated and primitive sense Ceausescu actually tried to do best his job. Of course he was a dictator. Of course he did so many bad things. But I'm not sure he was dishonest w. Given that he was educated in a period of "sacrifice curves", "royal dictatorship", and other sorts of turmoil, what happened in the '80s might not have looked that bad in his eyes Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless I believe he should have been executed, if only for this.
I did not accuse of dishonesty. It is precisely this: what he honestly stood for, and what most Romanians agreed with until finding out that they just couldn't eat any more salami and even then, many of them sure liked Vatra Romaneasca Shall we call it "trial of communism"?
Well, if that implies that we have placed an ideology on trial, and thus exclude what we and none other made of it, no. If it is pointing out to what I have mentioned, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Because there are multiple nationalisms. Ceausescu was nationalist in some sense. I am in a different one, and my critique stands, even though I can understand his POV. I may tell you that, strictly IMO, I find the designation unnecessary and at times highly counter-productive, but I still would not hold you responsible for what the post-Adrianople fantasy has produced since: 1.
To paraphrase John Stuart Mill on conservatives: "Not all nationalists are stupid, but most stupid people are nationalists. Dahn20 May UTC What bothers me and makes me reply along these lines is that you keep on talking about Romanian nationalism as though it were one, whereas there were several of them.
Were you talking about "Ceausescu's form of nationalism", I would not have replied. And again, you hold onto your intellectual arguments.
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A very powerful nation does not need a national movement because nobody would challenge its interests so that its philosophers can utter such memorable phrases as you cite. But everything changes when this power declines. Human society needs groups, and the Agence 63. need some form of irrational, if you want ideological support.
This is reality, and until mankind changes fundamentally, I see no reason to weaken Romania by criticising romanian nationalism for its irrationality. The good thing to do is to follow other nations in structuring the national movement along constructive lines, and not chauvinistic and xenophobic propaganda. This is why I consider myself a nationalist.
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Moreover, I believe the romanian people deserves more recognition at international level in the sense of knowledge about its values and culture. Even though I can sense his biases, it gives very useful Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless. Most important, his point of view of the period is probably representative for the children of the "old guard" stalinist generation. I cannot see, however, how a genuine trial of the communism can be directed by him. I was speechless while seeing how Paul Goma one of the very, very few actual Romanian dissidents was attacked and discarded in the process that ended with Vladimir Tismaneanu in lead.
Again, I think that this "trial" is dumb idea, except as a political wapon. And the attacks on Goma clearly showed that it is intended to be such a thing. Tismaneanu in lead is actually an interesting choice: everybody knows who he is, and if this is not important, what else can be? Therefore, he can influence Romanian politics in whichever way he chooses, for instance in favor of his old school colleagues cf.
Perhaps he would have been as good a choice as well I think that his "anti-semitism" is made up by his adversaries. However, it is sophistry to say that Tismaneanu has a shadowy past or whatever: he is good when he entertains Romanians with what they want to hear because it was entertainment value, and not the obvious truth of his analysis that has made Tismaneanu popularbut we don't want the Soviet boy to be handling "our past".
It has the same trivial status as accusations against Roman, except Tismaneanu has gone further than anyone in exposing communism as an ideology including his father's version of communism. As to "his school buddies": besides the fact that Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless know someone who went to school with him and who is not a communist, Nicu and the rest were known as the playboys who didn't give a piss about communism.
I think Tismaneanu has exposed this hypocrisy on numerous instances; I know that he has gone to length to expose the inherent evil of the nomenklatura from which his father was removed, and around which he gravitated as an adolescent.
In fact, his supposed "bias" was not linked to favouritism towards the likes of Sasha Mizil and Madalin Voicu with whom Romanians seem to have few problemsbut, in the same ugly mindset, to his or his father's - for what difference is there, right?
The fact that this topic still passes into conversation is what I dread most. Note that I do not say "agreeing", but "choosing". Like the Romanian "communist" regime in the 70s and 80s.
If fact, communism was relegated to propaganda, while the political system quickly approached that of an apolitical dictatorship. State property became a mere means of control, and private property was being slowly promoted appartments starting in the 80s, the "auto-gestion" of factories, etc.
Is Svetlana Alliluyeva "less reliable" as a critic of Stalinism because her father was Stalin? Are Old Bolsheviks less anti-Stalinists because they were Marxists in fact, wasn't the first major critique of Stalinism a Marxist one? And I could go on with many such examples Recall that he is for much in Cauta?
i o femeie pe Fleless the "leninist" system actually was if only because he organized part of it. Let's say that criteria is subjective, without saying that it is dissmissable. Moving on, we notice something interesting: Tismaneanu is bad for leaving probably using his connectionsGoma gets exiled, Blandiana's gestures are too timid to Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless and are contrasted by her supposed "praise" for the regimewhile Brucan is a communist etc. But wouldn't you say, Dpotop, that all of them have the merit of doing something to oppose Ceausism, in contrast to the larger part of the Romanian population?
And, more importantly, will you reject my verdict that most Romanians have actually backed Ceausism, helped it along, and found benefits in it? Dahn19 May UTC I find it fete divortate din Sibiu care cauta barbati din Alba Iulia that we agree on the main point: today it's just a political fight.
As to the second point, note that I do not challenge the analysis of Tismaneanu. I mostly disagree with his choice as a symbol, given that the "trial of communism" is a symbol itself.
Dpotop19 May UTC As concerns your statement most Romanians have actually backed Ceausism, helped it along, and found benefits in it I would say it is partly true, except for the benefits part, and maybe not in the sense you see it. But this is the subject of another discussion already: When and Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless did Romanians actually back Ceausescu? Judgment of intellectuals has been and is already available, and no sane person could "prosecute" Maoism and Khruschevism along with Stalinism etc.
If we are talking about the investigation of communism in Romania while I reject that we need "special laws" for that, and especially the Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless that doing something which is both not criminal now and not illegal back then - i. If we talk about "doing wrong under communism" which is an objective principlethen Tismaneanu is beyond suspicion.
Ceausism, which may only benefit from passing into "faults we attribute to the generic term 'communism'", reflects things for which none of the proposed dissidents - Goma as well as Soviet children, and even Brucan - is to be made responsible for unlike your Trotsky analogy.
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So, I propose that the real issue here is: Romanians looking for an excuse for what they have condoned or, as Sieyès put it, "vecu"and the ancestral "blame it on the outsiders" which both Dej and Ceausescu knew how to work with.
Dahn20 May UTC Oh, but you don't have to convince me that the "trial of communism" serves no useful purposes. Studying communism needs to be done, but then you don't need a boss to do historic science. Science is better off decentralized.
I do not think romanians need excuses for what happened during communism, nor some of exorcism or brain-washing. Two things are necessary: Romanians need to learn the history of communism in general, and that of romanian communism, so that it doesn't happen again.
People that have been hurt need some form of just compensation. And the main problem here is probably the definition of "just compensation". Here, I believe that only the democratic process in a state of law can be the measure. I can agree with that.
Dahn20 May UTC The capitalist wouldn't want all aspects of communism to be known, cause people might want it back. What do we do with the PCR, considering that so many were members, without it adding to either their career or designation as "communists"?
I'm thinking something on the lines of "Romanian Communist Party activists" with a subcat for "Gen.
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Secretaries", perhaps taking in view the 8th point of the Dating Man Cremieu. proclamation whereas for other Cauta?
i o femeie pe Fleless, categories would be created as "Members of I'm waiting for suggestions. Dpotop20 May UTC Yes, but, as it is, most other "politicians" categories follow this trend note that Category: French Communist Party members is included in Category:French Communist Party yeah, well, I had something to do with categorizing there I had decided to ask you because we have had that confontation on the PCR talkpage, and I want to make sure that we can agree on a distinction that is both relevant and accurate.
About the FRN: I was thinking the same thing, especially since a FNR cat would establish the needed nuance in Category:Fascist politics in Romania I cannot possibly get myself to include Carol in Category:Romanian fascists while keeping a straight face, and the FNR would be dead on with the proxy value of the concept.
Everything depends on what meaning you retain for "fascist". Dpotop21 May UTC Politicians by party This is drawing from the previous conversation with Dpotop excuse me, btw, for what seemed like an abrupt ending: I'm not sure if you want to continue it, Dpotop, but the only reason I originally stopped is because I got tangled up in other issues.
I would Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless to hear opinions and comments on the issues with a newly-created subcategory here: Category talk:Romanian politicians by party. I want us all to see what terms we can agree on for future inclusions. If you feel like stating your views on this page instead, that would be just as good. Thank you. Dahn22 May UTC I sure wouldn't be at all preoccupied with the lack of response to this issue if I wouldn't be convinced that, when categories will be created without consensus, many of those who have Cauta?
i o femeie pe Fleless to express any sort of opinion so far will nonetheless be "outraged" by this and that here and there. I have Cauta? i o femeie pe Fleless number of pictures of Sibiu including of the village musume or Traditional Folk Civilisation Museu as it is mentioned in the article. Anyway my question, I don't want to just upload them randomly if they dont have a place in an article since that is bad form.
Should I just put the ones that are ok for use here on commons and drop a note here? Or should I leave a link to a personal gallery with them and leave a note that people can upload them here if they like under a CC licence?
I did upload two pics but the better ones are still in RAW format and will have to be tinkered with and converted to JPG. Even though they may not be needed now, they will be needed in the future.
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Uploading them to commons enables them to be used by a wide variety of projects who may need them. Most of the photos of The Endless Column were taken in jpg and raw format and the Cauta?
i o femeie pe Fleless turned out very poorly but the raw ones look good. My roomate is going to help me clean them up this week.